[quote FUH81CBV77S9WDU5][quote G99B08Z3T869U70A] I know second hand car salesmen have an appalling reputation, but at least they are working hard to get that sale. It really takes the shine off that moment when you're picking up your new car if the salesman is a jerk.[/quote] Just about all the cars I have ever owned were bought privately so I haven't had to put up with used car salesman very much. The big exception was in early 2013 when I was looking for a run-about, and walked through all the car-yards in Ipswich Rd in Moorooka. The spin I had from all the used car sales people was so off-putting, that I just kept walking. In one yard, this 2008 Hyundai Getz 1.6 SX 5-speed manual was on a plinth, so I was able to look in under and over the car. No one came near me, so I had to go into the showroom to ask about it. They knew I was there, and told me they thought I knew what I was looking at, so didn't want to bother me! They got the sale; the price was right, the presentation perfect, the alloy wheels set it off and I never had an ounce of trouble with it. Probably the best car I have ever owned...